We get many questions from people asking us about specific people and what we know about them. Everyone from politicians to well-known preachers to obscure internet “prophets” to new-age occultists and even about those who have died — many people want to know if we have heard of these individuals and what we think about the messages they share.
“What is your take on this guy?”
“What do you personally know about this politician?”
“What do you think of this preacher and his church?”
“I can’t find anything wrong with what so-and-so is teaching, and even though they are connected to people who are teaching false doctrine, I don’t think the person themselves is too bad. What do you think?”
“Can you speak of this man or this woman?”
“What do you think about so-and-so’s teachings?”
“Do you know about this particular occultist? What do you think about what they say?”
“Have you heard of this man or woman? Is what they are teaching the truth?”
“What do you think about this ministry?”
“Do you know anything about this organization?”
There is a saying that you may be familiar with — “Give a man a fish and he’ll eat for a day. Teach him to fish and he’ll eat for a lifetime.”
Keeping this principle in mind, here’s the deal:
● Aside from a few exceptions when we were young, we have not had a lot of interaction with united States politicians.
● There are many well-known “Christian” preachers that we simply don’t follow, therefore we aren’t up to date on all the doctrines they preach.
● There are countless occultists (many of whom fallaciously label themselves a “Christian”) that we have never heard of, therefore we can’t have a reasonably intelligent discussion about what they believe in and what they share with others.
Bottom line, there is no possible way that we can know of or be familiar with every single individual that you — the collective “you” of the individuals who have emailed us — are familiar with. Carolyn and I could do a quick internet search (and we have) on the names that people have given us that we aren’t familiar with, and give you a quick “that person is involved in the occult and stay away from them” response. But what good does this do if you don’t understand how to discern this for yourself? What good does it do if you don’t understand why the message that they are spreading is not of God? And to be perfectly clear, Carolyn and I aren’t going to spend hours and hours immersing ourselves in false doctrine just so we can explain to you why what they are teaching is occult. We don’t have the time or the desire.
However, we wrote a book that you can use as a tool to help you discern for yourself the messages that you are receiving from other people.
Let me write that again, but louder: we wrote a book that you can use as a tool to help you discern for YOURSELF the messages that you are receiving from other people!
Okay… normal voice now. 🙂
What we are trying to say is that we’d rather teach you to fish (teach you to discern for yourself) rather than give you a fish (tell you what to think about the people that you come in contact with). Our book is that teaching manual, and we spent six long months writing it for your benefit, with the enemy and his unfortunate human puppets attacking us every step of the way!
Even though in our book Carolyn and I focused on exposing occult doctrines that are prevalent within charismatic groups, churches, ministries, and deliverance counseling, and compared them to typical occult doctrines that have been around for centuries, the same principles that we wrote about in our book is true for anyone who is operating within the occult, no matter if they proclaim to be a Christian or not. So please use our book as a tool to educate yourself. Generally speaking, this is much better than us telling you what to think about this person or that person or this ministry or that organization.
There have been some people express annoyance that we keep pointing them back to our book when they ask us questions. Just a couple of naysayers, but the complainers always seem to be louder than the supporters. The enemy (Satan) certainly knows how to use people to hit you when you’re already feeling down. Although we know where this is coming from, it is still discouraging. However, we aren’t going to stop suggesting people read our book, because the whole reason we wrote the book is to answer your questions. So why wouldn’t we direct people to our book, particularly in the cases where the questions being asked are directly addressed in our book?
➡︎ Reminder: We have made our book available to you for free to read on our blog or on PDF. Follow this link for access: https://askcarolynandloren.com/book/.
Initially, our book was to be a response mainly to the questions Carolyn and I received asking for more detail as to why we dissociated ourselves from Bride Ministries, to serve as a warning to those who were still caught up in deception, and to offer hope and solutions to those who have been deeply wounded by that so-called “ministry.” But as Carolyn and I began writing, we quickly realized that since the web of deception goes much, much deeper than just one group of ungodly so-called “counselors and ministers” and much, much deeper than just one sham of a “ministry,” that the book would answer a lot of questions that people have sent to us. So this is why we keep referring people back to it.
So for those who don’t know what our book is all about, we want you to know: YES, this book will help you identify infiltrators, false teachers, and false doctrines. No, we don’t give you a list of names. We do make a passing reference to a small number of people, both alive and dead, but it is mainly for the purpose of referring you to to their respective websites, videos, or literature so that you can go and see for yourself where we got our information, and that what we write in our book is true. Even so, many of those references are indirect mentions. But although we don’t give you a list of people to watch out for, we do give you tools so that you can identify infiltrators, false teachers, and false doctrine that you come across.
Summary of the Tools in Section One
Each concept builds on the one that came before, so in order to understand each topic, we suggest that you read the entire book, preferably from beginning to end, at least the first time around. It will be much more difficult to understand how each subject relates to the next if you aren’t able to grasp the foundational points presented in the sections that came before.
But to give you an overview, here are some of the tools Carolyn and I give you in Section One:
This chapter will help you understand and identify basic types of occult infiltrators, and outlines some of the fundamentals of how they operate.
This chapter will help you understand that there are many self-proclaimed Christians who are operating out of a spirit of witchcraft, how this takes place, and two big reasons why they and others are fooled: religious programming and demons or fallen angels who go by the name “Jesus” or other translations of the name. This will help you recognize these things in other people, as well as in your own life.
This short chapter will help you recognize some of the ways infiltrators are trying to lead you astray, and what Satan’s ultimate end-goal is.
This chapter will help you understand what the fruit of the occultist is and how it compares to the fruit of the Spirit. It can also help you recognize the false fruit of the occultist, and why their fruit is false, even though through our human understanding it sometimes can appear to be of God.
Summary of the Tools in Section Two
In Section Two, we give you more tools by describing six different ungodly motivations that we have noticed with charismatic occultists. However, these characteristics can be applied to anyone who is operating out of a spirit of witchcraft, regardless of whether they call themselves “Christian” or not. If people’s motivations are impure and if they are focusing on and seeking after the wrong things, then they are dangerously vulnerable to becoming entangled in false doctrine. So when you understand why these motivations do not line up with what is Scriptural, then you can recognize when you or others are susceptible to being led into occult doctrine.
The six different motivations of charismatic occultists that we detailed are:
1. They are ego-based: man-centered, not God-centered.
2. They are focused on gifts and abilities and how to develop those gifts and abilities.
3. They desire spiritual experiences.
4. They seek after spiritual manifestations.
6. They are warrior-minded, focused on a false spiritual warfare.
We are not saying these are the only motivators, but they certainly are the main ones that we have seen and experienced in charismatic occult circles. We have also seen and experienced that these motivating characteristics are fundamental within other occult groups that do not consider themselves to be “Christian,” so what we have written can be applied in different situations and to different groups. Use the knowledge about these motivators that we give you in our book to help you discern the spirit out of which others (and yourself) are operating.
Summary of the Tools in Section Three
Then in Section Three, we give you even more tools, and went into considerable detail with several teachings and practices that are common with charismatic occultists, and describing why they are occult. But again, these teachings and practices are not just within charismatic groups — they are foundational to the beliefs of many different types of occult groups, whether or not they claim to be Christian.
The teachings and practices we detailed are:
1. Spirit Man
This teaching uses common occult principles that have been around for many, many years, and we go into detail describing them. If you hear people talking of the things that we write about in this chapter, regardless of whether they use the term “spirit man” or not, then you will know where they are coming from and why these teachings are dangerous and unscriptural.
2. Shining Ones
This is a common charismatic occult teaching that has been renamed and repackaged slightly. It is very similar to the “little gods” teachings, and if you understand the content of this chapter, you will understand what this and similar teachings are all about.
In this chapter, we also go into detail concerning “realms,” because this is important to understanding what is going on in the spirit world and why it is happening when charismatic occultists (or any type of occultist) are channeling the demonic and engaging in so-called “kingdom building.”
As with the Spirit Man doctrine, if you hear people talking of the things that we expound upon in this chapter, regardless of the specific words they are using to describe those occult principles, then you will know where they are coming from and why what they are sharing with you is dangerous and ungodly.
This is a teaching that is nearly identical to the “third eye” teachings, and the results of engaging in this seat of dominion activity are indistinguishable as to what happens when the “third eye” or the “head/crown center” is opened. If you understand the contents of this chapter, you will understand what is really happening when you open yourself up to this deception, even when this occult doctrine is being sold to you in a “Christian” package. You will also be able to understand where self-proclaimed “Christians” are coming from when they start talking about the things we speak of in this chapter, and you will be able to discern that they are teaching occult doctrine.
This is an occult teaching that is heavily disguised in a “Christian” package, but if you understand the contents of this chapter, you will be able to recognize silver-tongued devils who claim to come in the Spirit of God, preaching the feel-good doctrines of theologies such as “gateways” that are absolutely contrary to the Word of God.
This chapter will help you understand that not everything that is real is of God, and you will be less likely to be swayed by experiences — either of others or of yourself — that do not line up with the Word of God.
This chapter will help you see that “spirit travel” and “seeing in the spirit” is just another term for what occultists often call “astral travel,” and in this way, when you hear of others speaking of this, you will understand what they are talking about and out of which spirit they are operating.
This chapter will open your eyes to this particular tactic of the enemy, and the reasons why people engage in this occult activity.
This chapter will help further reinforce what we have written in various places throughout the book, that these are not angels of God, but are demonic entities that are leading people into delusion and reinforcing that delusion. So when you hear people talking about angels, you will be better equipped to discern whether what they speak about is of God or not. Or, if you have an “angelic” encounter, you will be more likely to be discerning of such an encounter.
This chapter will help further reinforce what we have written in various places throughout the book, that this is a false “Jesus” — an antichrist — that is leading people into delusion and reinforcing that delusion by leading people into spiritual experiences, activities, and doctrines that are not Biblical. If you read this chapter with understanding, you will be able to start discerning when others (or yourself) are following a false Jesus (an antichrist).
This chapter will help you understand that the charismatic “great cloud of witnesses” is simply a way to thinly disguise necromancy, and it explains some of the different ways this can take place so you can recognize this when you come across it with other people.
This chapter will help shed light on “spiritual warfare,” something that is common in today’s so-called “Christian” world. We explain why the modern-day charismatic “spiritual warfare” is not Biblical, and how to engage in Biblical spiritual warfare. If you read this chapter with understanding, you will be able to very easily spot people (including yourself) who are in error and being used by the demonic concerning such ungodly warfare.
This chapter briefly describes the ungodly, unbiblical teachings of “courtrooms of heaven.” If you read this chapter with understanding, you will know that when people speak of the types of things written about in this chapter, what they are engaging in is not of God.
As a reminder: because so many occult methods that we expose in our book are used in this “courtrooms” teaching, reading the previous content of the book will help you understand this chapter and why participating in this unscriptural teaching is so dangerous.
This is what being led by the Spirit of God looks like: having a relationship with your Heavenly Father and trusting in and being obedient to His Word. This is made possible only through Jesus Christ. (For more on being led by the Spirit of God, see Romans 8 and Galatians 5:16-25.)
But how can we be obedient to His Word if we don’t know His Word, and how can we discern what is against His Word if we don’t understand His Word? So then, discernment begins first by knowing and understanding the Word of God, and then by aligning everything with His Word (the Bible) that has been properly interpreted within context.
This is the beginning of discernment and it is vital!
The deception of the occult is not that it is not real. The deception of the occult is that it is not truth. But very often, particularly with so-called “Christian” occultists, Scripture is perverted and twisted out of context so that it appears to be true. Sometimes this perversion of Scripture is obvious, but many times it is not. That is why it is so deceptive! If it were obvious, it wouldn’t be deceptive! But if you learn to line everything up with the Word of God that has been properly interpreted within context, you will be less likely to fall for the tricks and lies of the enemy and for the tricks and lies of people who are being used by the enemy.
It is our hope and prayer that our book will help you recognize and discern the tactics of the enemy. But over and above even this, we hope and pray that our book points you to the Solution to every problem you face in life: your Heavenly Father.
We pray that the blessing of a relationship with your Heavenly Father will overtake you, that His will is done in your life, and that you learn to walk in obedience and in submission to His will.
Loren and Carolyn ❤